"Life of Caesar" Podcast: Episode 13
Throughout all of the Gallic War, it's very obvious that Cam and Ray haven't read the "Gallic War Commentaries" in full. They read excerpts here and there, but not all of it. Their main source of information continues to be Goldsworthy's "Life of a Colossus."
Episode 13:
• 0:17 – Cam: "Welcome back, ladies, gentlemen, boys and girls, to the podcast . . . that the iTunes Podcasts twitter account called, 'An enlightening look at Julius Caesar, with myth-busting anecdotes and fascinating parallels.'"
I don't remember them busting any myths, more like creating new ones.
• 10:48 – Cam: "Do you know what 'helvetica' means in Latin? . . It means 'the swiss.'"
There was no such word as "Switzerland" back then. The people living there were called the Helvetii. Helveticus or Helvetica were adjectives. In 17-19th centuries, Switzerland was sometimes called Helvetia (a romantic name like Albion for Britain). The helvetica font was created in Switzerland, hence its name.
• 14:08 – Cam: "The Helvetii didn't have kings, like the Romans. They had abandoned the idea of kings and they were governed by sort of the combination sort of elections and chieftains, you know, like tribal leaders. No kings, but, you know, sort of tribal chiefs that would get together and would talk and discuss. I always thought the Gauls were probably– you know, you always see them depicted as, you know, [can't make out the word]. That sounds quite, you know, advanced and civilized. . . . I mean we sort of celebrate the Roman Republic for disposing of monarchy and experimenting with democracy, but it wasn't just the Romans."
a) The Helvetii =/= all of Gaul. Some tribes were ruled by chieftains, other tribes were ruled by kings. And elections had very specific conditions: the power lay in the hands of druids and knights. The people from within this circle were elected by the people from within this circle.
b) The Roman Republic was democracy on paper. In practice, it was an oligarchy.
• 26:47 – Ray: "So Caesar has his one legion tear down the bridge that's crossing the river. And he sends out word to his allies nearby to start levying the troops. And so the Helvetii send emissaries to him and they say, 'Look, we want to cross. We just want to go, no trouble, we won't plunder, we're not gonna do anything, we just wanna get across, settle down somewhere and get away from the Germans and harsh conditions.' And Caesar says, 'Yeeeeah, I don't know. I can think about it. Why don't you come back on the ides of April, April 13th, and I will let you know my feelings then.' And then– I really enjoy this part, in the 'Commentaries' Caesar stops right there and he reminds his audience, he literally stops the story and reminds the audience, he goes, 'You know, back in 107 BCE the Helvetii were one of many tribes that annihilated Roman armies, there was the Cimbri and the Teutones, some other ones, but the Helvetii made the troops who survived the massacre walk under the yoke, thus turning them from soldiers to citizens, so it was a huuuge embarrassment for Rome at the time.' Basically, what he's saying is 'That happened in 107. It's not gonna happen on my watch. Never again.' He's like giving his oath. He's almost like working up his audiences as they're reading this story to let them know why he's going to do what he's about to do."
This is not the "Commentaries"! This is Goldsworthy's description of it. Caesar does mention Cassius here, but it's less than half of the sentence. While Goldsworthy spends half the paragraph explaining the history of the battle, what walking under the yoke meant, and what Caesar's intentions were in his opinion.
"The Germans and harsh conditions" is another assumption made by Ray. The thing is, the Helvetii were a numerous and powerful tribe, but their area was very restricted, with little opportunity for raiding. And raiding was the main form of warfare in Gaul that played an important role in Gallic culture and society. The Helvetii needed a better opportunity to do that, so they moved. It was not uncommon in ancient times.
• 31:51 – Ray: "There is no major assaults across the wall, but some of them try load to [can't make out the word] rafts and trying to cross and do the best they can at night, that kind of stuff. But there is no– and this surprised me, there is no major engagement."
Why is this surprising? How were they supposed to make major assaults on the wall when there is a whole damn river in front of it?!
• 34:27 – Ray on 11th and 12th legions: "Most of these men come from Cisalpine Gaul. Technically, they can't be legionaries, because they are not Roman citizens."
This is debatable. There were a lot of Roman citizens in Cisalpine Gaul. There were about ten major colonies. Their votes played an important role in the elections. If they had so many voters, it means they had a lot of men eligible for the army.
Later in the decade, Caesar will levy troops from non-citizens from Transalpine Gaul. For example, the 5th legion. But there are no explicit mentions that Transpadani from Cisalpine Gaul served in Caesar's Gallic legions. It is possible, considering that he always championed their cause. And some of them must have served with him. But if it had been widespread (like entire legions), we would've heard of it.
• 36:12 – Cam: "It's an amazing feat of boldness that he even thought this was doable. Massively outnumbered with a bunch of newbies, but, you know, he's Caesar."
"A feat of boldness" is probably an exaggeration. There was some risk involved because Gallic tribes were formidable opponents. But six legions is a comfortable number of troops. I don't think Caesar was unique in thinking this was doable. Besides, only two legions were newbies (and he wouldn't let them fight), the other four had some experience.
• 37:21 – Cam: "One of the big issues now is how does he feed all of these people on campaign. Hasn't been preparing for this for, you know, six months like you would in normal military campaign, you're able to prepare. . . . So he sends a message to the Aedui, who are supposedly Rome's allies . . . to get some food. He says, 'Hey, you're Roman allies, you need to supply us with food. Send us some grain, so I can disperse it to the troops.'"
At this point, the Aedui had already made an official request for Roman support against the Helvetii. That's why they were to provide Roman legions with grain.
• 38:54 – Ray: "I just thought it was amazing that Caesar gathers these two legions. And how does he get them ready? He takes them to the f---ing Alps. And they're attacked constantly by tribes who don't want them there. That's how you train men."
It's not like he had a choice. Only one legion was left in defense of Transalpine Gaul. He needed to return as quickly as possible, and this was the quickest route. He had five legions with him. Three of them were experienced, so it's not like the newbies had to fend off attacks all on their own.
• 42:45 – Cam: "We said, I think, last episode that they didn't have a dedicated engineer corps like you would have today or you had in Napoleon's time even. It was just, 'Ah, anyone knows how to build a bridge? Anyone knows how to build a boat?'"
In the last episode, it was worded a bit differently and was pretty correct, but this take is exaggerated.
It's true that the Roman army didn't have a special unit of engineers in our modern understanding. But the early Roman army did have a unit of fabri (masons, carpenters, blacksmiths, etc.), who were only building and not fighting. By Caesar's time, such unit was no longer around. But legionaries with appropriate skills were marked as fabri in the lists.
• 44:13 – Cam: "There is an interesting thing that historians have called bullshit. Caesar claims that as he was going close to the rest of the Helvetii, they send another delegation to sue for peace. Now, Caesar claims that it was headed by a man called Divico, who was the leader of the war back in a 107 BCE. Now, 107 BCE he was the war leader, so you imagine he'd have to be at the youngest early 20s-mid 20s. This is 58 BCE. So I'll let you do the math on that, 'cause it's too early in the morning for me. 50 years later. So he's gonna be at the earliest, at his youngest, in his early 70s. Quit possibly if he was the war leader, you know, he's gonna be in his 80s, in his 90s at this stage? We're supposed to believe, according to Caesar, that this guy was sent as the part of the delegation to sue for peace. And also that he's made the journey so far, marched one hundred miles. [...]"
Ray: "They're not gonna carry him around if he can't get around on his own. So, yeah, let's call bullshit."
Cam: "Yeah, people calling bullshit on that. I mean it's possible, but highly unlikely."
a) Cam and Ray are exaggerating. Their source is Goldsworthy, and he simply notes that Divico "must have been very elderly."
The Helvetii had several chieftains leading the tribe. Divico could have been the son of one of the chieftains and took his father's place once his father died. He could have been even younger than 20. The battle was 49 years ago. Let's say he was in his early 20s at the time. That would make him 70-something now. Despite the persistent myth that people in antiquity didn't live long, they did. For example, Augustus died at 74.
b) "They're not gonna carry him around if he can't get around on his own."
They had wagons for women, children, and the elderly. And who said he couldn't get around on his own?
If it's completely impossible for elderly people to make this journey, does that mean that the Helvetii left behind all their elderly? Torched their villages and left their elderly to starve? What heartwarming implications just to disbelief that old Divico could be here.
But when it's time to discuss the horrors of war, Cam and Ray immediately start to throw women, children, and the elderly into the picture. So many elderly people around all of a sudden. But one elderly guy here is apparently hard to believe.
Throughout all of the Gallic War, it's very obvious that Cam and Ray haven't read the "Gallic War Commentaries" in full. They read excerpts here and there, but not all of it. Their main source of information continues to be Goldsworthy's "Life of a Colossus."Episode 13:
• 0:17 – Cam: "Welcome back, ladies, gentlemen, boys and girls, to the podcast . . . that the iTunes Podcasts twitter account called, 'An enlightening look at Julius Caesar, with myth-busting anecdotes and fascinating parallels.'"
I don't remember them busting any myths, more like creating new ones.
• 10:48 – Cam: "Do you know what 'helvetica' means in Latin? . . It means 'the swiss.'"
There was no such word as "Switzerland" back then. The people living there were called the Helvetii. Helveticus or Helvetica were adjectives. In 17-19th centuries, Switzerland was sometimes called Helvetia (a romantic name like Albion for Britain). The helvetica font was created in Switzerland, hence its name.
• 14:08 – Cam: "The Helvetii didn't have kings, like the Romans. They had abandoned the idea of kings and they were governed by sort of the combination sort of elections and chieftains, you know, like tribal leaders. No kings, but, you know, sort of tribal chiefs that would get together and would talk and discuss. I always thought the Gauls were probably– you know, you always see them depicted as, you know, [can't make out the word]. That sounds quite, you know, advanced and civilized. . . . I mean we sort of celebrate the Roman Republic for disposing of monarchy and experimenting with democracy, but it wasn't just the Romans."
a) The Helvetii =/= all of Gaul. Some tribes were ruled by chieftains, other tribes were ruled by kings. And elections had very specific conditions: the power lay in the hands of druids and knights. The people from within this circle were elected by the people from within this circle.
b) The Roman Republic was democracy on paper. In practice, it was an oligarchy.
• 26:47 – Ray: "So Caesar has his one legion tear down the bridge that's crossing the river. And he sends out word to his allies nearby to start levying the troops. And so the Helvetii send emissaries to him and they say, 'Look, we want to cross. We just want to go, no trouble, we won't plunder, we're not gonna do anything, we just wanna get across, settle down somewhere and get away from the Germans and harsh conditions.' And Caesar says, 'Yeeeeah, I don't know. I can think about it. Why don't you come back on the ides of April, April 13th, and I will let you know my feelings then.' And then– I really enjoy this part, in the 'Commentaries' Caesar stops right there and he reminds his audience, he literally stops the story and reminds the audience, he goes, 'You know, back in 107 BCE the Helvetii were one of many tribes that annihilated Roman armies, there was the Cimbri and the Teutones, some other ones, but the Helvetii made the troops who survived the massacre walk under the yoke, thus turning them from soldiers to citizens, so it was a huuuge embarrassment for Rome at the time.' Basically, what he's saying is 'That happened in 107. It's not gonna happen on my watch. Never again.' He's like giving his oath. He's almost like working up his audiences as they're reading this story to let them know why he's going to do what he's about to do."
This is not the "Commentaries"! This is Goldsworthy's description of it. Caesar does mention Cassius here, but it's less than half of the sentence. While Goldsworthy spends half the paragraph explaining the history of the battle, what walking under the yoke meant, and what Caesar's intentions were in his opinion.
"The Germans and harsh conditions" is another assumption made by Ray. The thing is, the Helvetii were a numerous and powerful tribe, but their area was very restricted, with little opportunity for raiding. And raiding was the main form of warfare in Gaul that played an important role in Gallic culture and society. The Helvetii needed a better opportunity to do that, so they moved. It was not uncommon in ancient times.
• 31:51 – Ray: "There is no major assaults across the wall, but some of them try load to [can't make out the word] rafts and trying to cross and do the best they can at night, that kind of stuff. But there is no– and this surprised me, there is no major engagement."
Why is this surprising? How were they supposed to make major assaults on the wall when there is a whole damn river in front of it?!
• 34:27 – Ray on 11th and 12th legions: "Most of these men come from Cisalpine Gaul. Technically, they can't be legionaries, because they are not Roman citizens."
This is debatable. There were a lot of Roman citizens in Cisalpine Gaul. There were about ten major colonies. Their votes played an important role in the elections. If they had so many voters, it means they had a lot of men eligible for the army.
Later in the decade, Caesar will levy troops from non-citizens from Transalpine Gaul. For example, the 5th legion. But there are no explicit mentions that Transpadani from Cisalpine Gaul served in Caesar's Gallic legions. It is possible, considering that he always championed their cause. And some of them must have served with him. But if it had been widespread (like entire legions), we would've heard of it.
• 36:12 – Cam: "It's an amazing feat of boldness that he even thought this was doable. Massively outnumbered with a bunch of newbies, but, you know, he's Caesar."
"A feat of boldness" is probably an exaggeration. There was some risk involved because Gallic tribes were formidable opponents. But six legions is a comfortable number of troops. I don't think Caesar was unique in thinking this was doable. Besides, only two legions were newbies (and he wouldn't let them fight), the other four had some experience.
• 37:21 – Cam: "One of the big issues now is how does he feed all of these people on campaign. Hasn't been preparing for this for, you know, six months like you would in normal military campaign, you're able to prepare. . . . So he sends a message to the Aedui, who are supposedly Rome's allies . . . to get some food. He says, 'Hey, you're Roman allies, you need to supply us with food. Send us some grain, so I can disperse it to the troops.'"
At this point, the Aedui had already made an official request for Roman support against the Helvetii. That's why they were to provide Roman legions with grain.
• 38:54 – Ray: "I just thought it was amazing that Caesar gathers these two legions. And how does he get them ready? He takes them to the f---ing Alps. And they're attacked constantly by tribes who don't want them there. That's how you train men."
It's not like he had a choice. Only one legion was left in defense of Transalpine Gaul. He needed to return as quickly as possible, and this was the quickest route. He had five legions with him. Three of them were experienced, so it's not like the newbies had to fend off attacks all on their own.
• 42:45 – Cam: "We said, I think, last episode that they didn't have a dedicated engineer corps like you would have today or you had in Napoleon's time even. It was just, 'Ah, anyone knows how to build a bridge? Anyone knows how to build a boat?'"
In the last episode, it was worded a bit differently and was pretty correct, but this take is exaggerated.
It's true that the Roman army didn't have a special unit of engineers in our modern understanding. But the early Roman army did have a unit of fabri (masons, carpenters, blacksmiths, etc.), who were only building and not fighting. By Caesar's time, such unit was no longer around. But legionaries with appropriate skills were marked as fabri in the lists.
"Every legion included in its ranks a number of skilled artisans, called fabri who have been likened to the engineers in a modern army; but they were not permanently enrolled in a separate corps. They fought in the ranks like other soldiers; but, when their special services were required, they were directed by staff-officers called praefecti fabrum. It was their duty to execute repairs of every kind, to superintend the construction of permanent camps, and to plan fortifications and bridges; and it should seem that they also had charge of the artillery." – T. Rice Holmes
• 44:13 – Cam: "There is an interesting thing that historians have called bullshit. Caesar claims that as he was going close to the rest of the Helvetii, they send another delegation to sue for peace. Now, Caesar claims that it was headed by a man called Divico, who was the leader of the war back in a 107 BCE. Now, 107 BCE he was the war leader, so you imagine he'd have to be at the youngest early 20s-mid 20s. This is 58 BCE. So I'll let you do the math on that, 'cause it's too early in the morning for me. 50 years later. So he's gonna be at the earliest, at his youngest, in his early 70s. Quit possibly if he was the war leader, you know, he's gonna be in his 80s, in his 90s at this stage? We're supposed to believe, according to Caesar, that this guy was sent as the part of the delegation to sue for peace. And also that he's made the journey so far, marched one hundred miles. [...]"
Ray: "They're not gonna carry him around if he can't get around on his own. So, yeah, let's call bullshit."
Cam: "Yeah, people calling bullshit on that. I mean it's possible, but highly unlikely."
a) Cam and Ray are exaggerating. Their source is Goldsworthy, and he simply notes that Divico "must have been very elderly."
The Helvetii had several chieftains leading the tribe. Divico could have been the son of one of the chieftains and took his father's place once his father died. He could have been even younger than 20. The battle was 49 years ago. Let's say he was in his early 20s at the time. That would make him 70-something now. Despite the persistent myth that people in antiquity didn't live long, they did. For example, Augustus died at 74.
b) "They're not gonna carry him around if he can't get around on his own."
They had wagons for women, children, and the elderly. And who said he couldn't get around on his own?
If it's completely impossible for elderly people to make this journey, does that mean that the Helvetii left behind all their elderly? Torched their villages and left their elderly to starve? What heartwarming implications just to disbelief that old Divico could be here.
But when it's time to discuss the horrors of war, Cam and Ray immediately start to throw women, children, and the elderly into the picture. So many elderly people around all of a sudden. But one elderly guy here is apparently hard to believe.
• 52:59 – Cam on Dumnorix' marriage connection to Orgetorix: "Now, Caesar doesn't know this, see? He's trusting Dumnorix to lead the cavalry, but he doesn't know that he's actually married to the daughter of the Orgie."
Nowhere does Caesar say that he didn't know about the marriage connection between Dumnorix and Orgetorix.
Dumnorix was in charge of the Aeduen contingent. Most of Caesar's cavalry came from Transalpine Gaul, so Dumnorix wasn't in charge of it.
• 54:16 – Cam on the post of Vergobret in some Gallic tribes: "He was like the prime minister, the president of the Aedui at the time. Vergobret, the supreme magistrate of the tribe. They got elected every year."
Yes, Vergobret was the supreme magistrate. But if we're gonna draw modern parallels, he was closer to a dictator than a prime minister. He was the chief judge and had the right of life and death. And as I mentioned earlier, he wasn't elected by the votes of the whole tribe; he was elected by druids and knights.
• 55:08 – Cam: "So he gets in Diviciacus and Liscus and he says, 'What is going on with the goddamned grain? This is not acceptable.' And they're like, 'Ah, well, look, there is a guy, don't wanna say too much, but..." They start speaking in pigeon English. 'There is a guy, who's big up in the tribe and he's preventing the grain from leaving. I don't want to say too much.' So Caesar says, like, 'Liscus, get outta here.' Keeps the druid in there, Diviciacus."
a) First, he summoned all the leading men of the Aedui who were in his camp. Diviciacus and Liscus were among them. Liscus spoke, but without naming any names. Caesar dismissed the meeting and spoke to Liscus alone. Then he spoke to each of the leading men. And then he spoke to Diviciacus.
b) They talked through interpreters. In episode 2, Ray says that Caesar had "a gift for tongues" because McCullough's Caesar is fluent in several languages, including the Gallic one. But Caesar himself says that he used interpreters.
• 57:15 – Cam: "Divi rats out Dumnorix to Caesar."
No, Caesar already got confirmation about Dumnorix from Liscus and the others. But Diviciacus was a close ally, and Caesar didn't want to offend him by punishing his brother. So, before making a decision in regards to Dumnorix, he wanted to speak to Diviciacus first.
• 01:00:59 – Ray: "And again I just think that's very Caesar-esque. I mean as opposed to trying work something out or maybe kind of be subtle, Caesar literally brings him and he goes, 'I know what you're doing. You better stop. I forgive you for this time because of your brother, his pleas. You mess with me again and I'll f--k you up.'"
He had two options: punish Dumnorix or issue a warning. The first option was less enticing because he didn't want to offend Diviciacus. So he went with the second option.
"...he warned him to avoid all occasions of suspicion for the future, and said that he excused the past in consideration for his brother Diviciacus." – Caesar
• 01:22:22 – Cam on the Helvetii: "And he sends them back to whence they came. Back to Switzerland, and says, 'You're gonna go back. You're gonna start again. You're gonna rebuild your villages. Don't ever come this way again. We want you where we want you. You're gonna stay where you are. I don't care that you don't like it. I don't care that the Germans are next door. I don't care that it's cold and it's mountainous, any of that stuff. Look, it's Switzerland, go build your clocks."
Caesar's speech is completely made up by Cam.
"By a treaty of alliance they entered into regular relations with Rome. Its terms included a clause based on earlier treaties with Celtic states guaranteeing that they would lose none of their people by enfranchisement as Roman citizens. The Allobroges were ordered to supply them with corn to meet their immediate needs. The surviving Boii, who had joined the Helvetian migration, were allowed by Caesar to remain in the territory of the Aedui." – Matthias Gelzer
Perhaps this doesn't sound much from a modern perspective, but by ancient rules of war, all of them could've been a) sold into slavery, b) killed to make an example of them, c) forbidden from settling in their homeland once again, d) forbidden from settling anywhere at all. That none of this happened and they could return home was actually quite merciful by ancient standards.
Cam goes on for a few minutes more, but I have no desire to type it all out. It's very black and white: the Helvetii = good, the Romans = evil. I understand where the latter comes from because of imperialism. But it strips the Helvetii of any agency. Like... The Gallic tribes were no less complicated than the rest of the world. They, too, had their power struggles. The Helvetian migration wasn't seen as sunshine and roses by other Gallic tribes, especially those smaller ones on whose lands they were gonna settle. The arrival of a powerful new tribe would disrupt the existing power dynamics. The Aedui were already struggling against the Sequani for dominance. Just three years ago, they suffered defeat by the Germanic king Ariovistus, so they didn't have the means to handle another powerful contender. And from the Roman perspective, the migration of a hostile tribe along the borders of the Roman province posed a danger to Italy. It was a massive power struggle between multiple groups, and everyone pursued their own interests.
"Gaul was not in the most stable of conditions when Caesar arrived. . . . The on-going struggle between the Aedui and the Sequani was a serious matter, since it affected the security of the province and the continuance of profitable trade. Both tribes were allied to Rome, but also displayed a willingness to seek outside help in winning the conflict. Around 71 BC the Sequani had summoned the Germanic King Ariovistus to bring his warriors to their aid. About ten years later he inflicted a serious defeat on the Aedui, many of whose principal noblemen were killed in the fighting. In return he was granted land on which his followers could settle. Soon afterwards the Aedui were also raided by the Helvetii from what is now Switzerland. Around the same time Diviciacus, a druid who had held the office of Vergobret, came to Rome seeking assistance. . . . It is worth emphasising that Caesar was entering a dynamic situation. The balance of power between – and often within – the tribes was frequently changing. By no stretch of the imagination were the tribes of Gaul mere victims, passively awaiting the onslaught of Roman imperialism." – Adrian Goldsworthy
***
A few words about the first campaign... One of the most interesting things about Caesar's campaigns is that we can actually see him learn and mature into a great commander. He wasn't OP from day one (it's one of the reasons I don't like McCullough's interpretation of Caesar—he is too damn perfect at everything).
"Caesar's battlefield virtuosity developed over long years and many campaigns. His first battles against the Helvetii reveal clearly how far he was from tactical mastery at that point. At Bibracte, where he faced the main body of their forces, he elected to await their charge at the top of a hill, only pursuing when the enemy's ranks had been broken, much as his great-uncle Marius had done half a century earlier at Aquae Sextiae. Yet his army nearly came to grief when they were surprised in their pursuit by the sudden arrival of the Helvetian rearguard behind the Romans. At their appearance Caesar found himself trapped between two enemies. While his third line of cohorts faced about to confront this new threat, the first and second continued the attack against the main body of the enemy, who, given fresh heart by the reinforcements, renewed the fight with great vigor. The battle raged long and hard, and although the Romans ultimately triumphed, their losses were heavy. Caesar had to spend three days tending to the wounded and burying his dead. Caesar had surrendered the tactical initiative by allowing the enemy's actions to dictate how the battle unfolded, and in so doing he had come very close to defeat. He would never make the same mistake again." – Nathan Rosenstein
It's also amusing to read one of his later campaigns and then go back and read the first one. He is so cautious here, not daring to venture too far without sufficient food supplies. And in later campaigns, especially in the Civil War, it's a bit like:
Episode 14
Comments
Post a Comment