"Life of Caesar" Podcast: Episode 2

I would like to say a huge thank you to my friend, without whose help I wouldn't have been able to do this. She has a PhD on this subject, and I'm so grateful that she takes time out of her busy schedule to help me with this.

Episode 2: 

A quick note... Multiple times throughout the episode, Cam and Ray would say things like, "Patricians didn't like this or that." As I mentioned before, Rome's aristocracy consisted of both patricians and plebeians. But I'm not gonna point it out every single time because that would be annoying as heck for everyone.

• 03:46 – Ray: "He was exposed to a lot of different languages, and supposedly he had a gift for tongues."

Caesar was bilingual in Latin and Greek. There are no records that he spoke more languages. What Ray is talking about comes from Colleen McCullough's novels again. Her Caesar speaks several languages, including the Gallic one. But in his own "Commentaries," Caesar says that he used interpreters to talk to Gallic chieftains.

• 04:01 – Ray: "The family decided when a boy officially became a man. And for Caesar that was somewhere around, I think, 15 or 16."

16 sounds too late in his case. It is more likely that Caesar became an adult when he was nominated for the post of Flamen Dialis. He was 13 ½ years old at the time.

This is what T.P. Wiseman says:

"During those three years of precarious peace, young Caesar legally became an adult (at 14), lost his father (at 15) and married (at 16)."

• 04:42 – Ray: "As far as I can tell, he probably had a normal childhood in that area. But everybody commented on how exceptional he was, how precocious he was, how old in years he seemed to be, even though he was a child. He was very confident, he was very knowledgeable, he absorbed books and he impressed pretty much everybody he ran into."

This comes entirely from Colleen McCullough. Suetonius' and Plutarch's accounts of Caesar's earliest years did not survive, so we have no records on what sort of child Caesar was. All we know of his childhood is that his mother was credited with his upbringing, that Marcus Antonius Gnipho was his tutor, and that Caesar composed a few poems in his youth. That's all. Caesar was extremely well-educated and intelligent, but we have no idea whether he displayed any extraordinary qualities as a child.

• 05:49 – Cam: "By the Roman calendar, he was born on the third day before the Ides of Quinctilis. Which was the fifth month . . . of the Republic's year. And the Republic's year began in March, Martius. But then, during Caesar's dictatorship, the month was renamed Julius in his honor . . . hence the modern July. We think of July as the seventh month, not the fifth month, because January and February were reinserted."

The early Roman calendar consisted of 10 months and began on March 1. During the reign of kings, January and February were added as the last two months of the year. Since the mid-2nd century BC, the consuls began to take office on January 1. And because the Romans named their years after the elected consuls, the beginning of the year was moved to January 1. But they did not rename the months, so Quinctilis ("fifth") kept its name, even though it became the seventh month of the year. The calendar was based on a lunar cycle, and months were shorter, so it was widely out of sync with actual seasons. Until the introduction of the Julian calendar.

Quinctilis was renamed Julius (July) in Caesar's honor, but some sources say it was done during his life, while other sources say it was done after his death.

• 08:13 – Ray: "And his other aunt, Julilla, who didn't live long after her marriage, was at one point married to Sulla."

This is McCullough again. There was no such name as Julilla. All women of the Julian clan were named Julia. Furthermore, we know of only one aunt of Caesar's, the one who was married to Marius.

As for Sulla's first wife, Plutarch says that her name was Ilia. Because no such family existed in Rome, it's been suggested that "Ilia" (Ίλία) is the distorted Greek spelling of "Julia" (Ίουλία) or that she is identical to Sulla's second wife Aelia (Αἰλία). If the former suggestion is correct, "then she could have been a sister of the famous orator Caesar Strabo and of L. Julius Caesar who was to be consul in 90" (Arthur Keaveney). She wouldn't be a sister to Caesar's father, who came from a different branch of Julii Caesares.

• 08:40 – Ray on the Julii Caesares: "Like you said, bloodlines are the most important thing. You could be as poor as you could possibly be. And they were. But because they had the blood, they were still considered one of the best families."

The Julii Caesares weren't dirt poor, but neither were they the crème de la crème of Roman society. They were a respectable family, but their status is indicated by the location of their house (in Subura) and the fact that they were marrying into equestrian families. Distinguished senatorial families did not seek marriage alliances with them.

Sulla was a fellow patrician, and he was so poor he didn't even have a house. It wasn't until his stepmother and a wealthy lover both left him money that he could finally embark on public life. The bloodline meant a lot, but it also meant shit without the money.

• 13:28 – Ray: "Even though he [Marius] was born a nobody and he wasn't born very rich, and he had absolutely no connections, and his family had not stood out in any way..."

Not to downplay Marius' achievements, but he came from an equestrian family, which means he had some wealth and connections. Obviously, not on the level of well-established senatorial families, but enough to start a career.

"The romantic notion that Marius' family was poor and that the elder Marius was little more than a farm labourer . . . probably owe their origins to Plutarch rather than to a reliable early source. And such unwarranted assertions may be dismissed because a young man who became intent on pursuing a political career had to have had disposable income in considerable quantity, not only because the honores were unpaid, but because the electoral campaigns for magistracies at Rome were a costly undertaking for any individual." – Richard John Evans

• 13:49 – Ray: "And he's [Marius] able to become praetor one year and he's in Spain. And while he was praetor in Spain, he's able to literally make a ton of money. He makes one fortune after another." 

a) Marius went to Spain after his year as praetor.

b) He undoubtedly profited in Spain because all Roman governors did. But none of our sources state that he became fabulously rich.

• 15:24 – Ray on Marius' five consecutive consulships: "Some people see it as beginning of the end of the Roman Republic."

I'm pretty sure the murder of Tiberius Gracchus is seen as the beginning of the end of the Roman Republic. Marius was an important step as well. But it was the unprecedented murders of the Gracchi brothers that started it all.

• 21:10 – Ray: "The brothers Gracchi were trying to take public land, parcel it out to some of the people, trying to get them an opportunity to advance themselves. The smaller patrician people didn't want that and so these two brothers ended up being killed."

a) The aim of Tiberius Gracchus' agrarian reform was slightly different. He tried to deal with a shortage of men available for the army.

"In his tribunate he focused on the public land (ager publicus) confiscated over the centuries from defeated Italian enemies. In both law and theory this was supposed to have been shared out in comparatively small lots amongst many citizens, but in practice large swathes had been absorbed into latifundia. The tribune passed a law confirming the legal limit of public land each individual was permitted to occupy, and redistributing the rest to poor citizens, thus raising these to the property class eligible for military service. Some senators supported Gracchus, but many more stood to lose directly from the confiscation of improperly held public land, as did many influential equestrians." – Adrian Goldsworthy

b) Gaius Gracchus passed a series of reforms. Some of which made him deeply unpopular with the elite.

• 22:23 – Ray: "Because of inept patrician generals, there is very few soldiers like there used to be." 

The decreasing number of men eligible for the army was a huge socio-economic issue with many factors involved. A few incompetent generals were just a drop in the bucket.

• 23:24 – Ray on Marius' army in the Cimbrian War: "He's [Marius] changing the army. Soldiers that he used, he used the absolute bottom. . . . He used people that had absolutely no property, they couldn't write, read. . . . He kept breaking rules, but he was breaking rules to keep Rome from perishing under this German horde."

Marius started to recruit from the lowest class during the war with Jugurtha. The practice wasn't new by the time he fought the Cimbri and Teutones.

His reform was significant, but it might not have been so groundbreaking. The trend was already on its way; he just made the last step.

"The extent of the change introduced during the levy of 107 BC should not be overestimated. It belongs, in fact, within a longer-term development, which had led to the revision of the property qualification thresholds that were used in the recruitment operations. The census level that was expected of the members of the class of the assidui, the lowest class who were entitled to serve in the army, had gradually been decreasing, and the distinction between assidui (who could be enrolled) and proletarii (who were not eligible) had become minimal. Marius had a very urgent need to secure a speedy levy, and for that reason he introduced two changes that, while important, confirmed a trend that had already began: volunteers could be drafted at very short notice, and widening the constituency of those who were eligible to serve would increase Marius' chance. Proletarii had been enlisted earlier at times of crisis, and the presence of volunteers in the army was usual. Moreover, the proletarii that Marius chose to enlist were not considerably poorer than many of the soldiers that were serving in the army." – Federico Santangelo

"Marius had openly recruited from the capite censi, those so poor that they were counted simply as numbers in the census, but he had probably just acknowledged a trend that was already well established." – Adrian Goldsworthy

• 30:33 – Cam: "His [Marius] suggestion that he should give land to his retired troops caused a revolt. That lead to, like, not a full civil war at this stage, but there was a mini-revolt. The Senate ordered Marius to put down the revolt. And even though he generally agreed with the idea of making land available to the veterans and offering them a lower price on wheat, etc., he obeyed the Senate. Put down the revolt and then retired."

Not exactly. Saturninus' land bill was fiercely opposed, but what finally led to his and Glaucia's violent deaths were the disturbances during the consular elections at the end of the year. That's when the Senate passed its ultimate decree and they were killed.

"The murder of a popular consular candidate, in which Saturninus was implicated along with Glaucia, provided the optimate faction in the Senate with all the justification they needed to mobilize the power of the state. The Senatus Consultum Ultimum was passed, calling on the consul Caius Marius to suppress the dangerous sedition." – Richard A. Billows

• 31:10 – Ray: "Which disproves what all of the optimates were thinking. That he was out to be king of Rome. But he just said, 'No, I'm not a patrician. I wasn't born into your world. I am an Italian as well as a Roman. But to prove to you that I'm not trying to be king, I'm gonna do all these amazing things and then I'm gonna step down.'"

First of all, Marius was never accused of wanting kingship. Secondly, he did not peace out gracefully like that. The Saturninus affair had damaged his reputation, so it was more like a semi-disgraceful retirement.

"The climax of his supreme military achievement was nothing more nor less than political disaster." – J.P.V.D. Balsdon

• 31:44 – Ray: "Supposedly, when he [Marius] was in Africa he met with a . . . fortune-teller, a sybil, whatever, and she told him that he would be consul seven times, so when he's consul the sixth time and he's gonna retire, he's not really worried about it, he thinks he's gonna be back one more time. But he's also told and, again, we don't really know how much of this story is true, he was told he will be consul seven times, which was insane for anybody to hear that, he was told he'll be the third founder of Rome, but he was also told that he would be the greatest Roman, except for someone related to him with the first name of Gaius. Which plays into a huge part of Julius Caesar's early life."

The original story in Appian:

"...they remembered the prophecy uttered while he was a boy, that he should be consul seven times. For it was said that while he was a boy seven eaglets alighted on his breast, and that the soothsayers predicted that he would attain the highest office seven times."

And Plutarch:

"When, that is, he was quite young and living in the country, he had caught in his cloak a falling eagle's nest, which had seven young ones in it; at sight of this, his parents were amazed, and made enquiries of the seers, who told them that their son would be most illustrious of men, and was destined to receive the highest command and power seven times."

Plutarch does mention a female soothsayer, but the circumstances are completely different. She was in Marius' entourage in the Cimbrian War:

"...he used to carry about ceremoniously in a litter a certain Syrian woman, named Martha, who was said to have the gift of prophecy, and he would make sacrifices at her bidding."

The rest of Ray's story is completely fictional. It comes from Colleen McCullough's "The First Man in Rome."

• 32:50 – Cam: "Meanwhile, there are a few years of peace in Rome. But then in 95 BCE Rome passes a decree expelling all of the residents of the city who were not Roman citizens. They were called the socii. . . . This lead to what's called the Social War."

It's not wrong, but just to elaborate... The resentment among Italian allies had been building since the times of Gaius Gracchus. The edict to expel them was the turning point. And the murder of Marcus Livius Drusus served as the final push.

"Allied as they were to Rome the Italian communities were obliged, by the terms of their treaties, to supply her with troops. In time they began to resent having to bear the burdens of empire without having an equal share of its fruits. Hence in the time of C. Gracchus they began to agitate for admittance to the Roman citizenship. This attempt proved to be a failure and we hear no more of the Italians' demand for nigh on thirty years. It is obvious, however, that their discontent and determination grew in this interval for, when their request was made again in 91, it was voiced with extreme urgency and in tones which would brook no refusal. So when their hopes of obtaining the citizenship died with their champion Drusus, the Italians, who had already made careful preparations against such an eventuality, rose in revolt to wrest not the citizenship but their independence from the Romans." – Arthur Keaveney

• 34:59 – Cam: "But he [Marius] comes out of retirement, comes back and leads the Romans against the Social War. But fighting alongside of him is a very important character, Lucius Cornelius Sulla. And, of course, they win."

Consuls were commanders-in-chief, not Marius. Marius and Sulla did cooperate briefly in one of the battles, but that was during the first year of the war, when Roman victory was a long way to go. Besides, they weren't the only ones leading the armies.

"The sheer scale of the fighting in the Social War, added to the deaths of several magistrates at the hands of the enemy and the incompetence shown by others, ensured that many experienced senators received commands as pro-magistrates." – Adrian Goldsworthy

• 36:38 – Ray: "He's [Sulla] definitely younger than Marius, but he's a lot older than most people think. Because he was like Marius, because he spent so much time in combat and in the military life. They all were very fit by all the marching and eating basic food. So he looks a lot younger than he is."

The sources provide a basic description of Sulla's looks, but none say that he looked younger than he was. And most people knew Sulla's age because ages were important in the elections.

• 36:58 – Cam: "At the beginning of the Social War, the Roman aristocracy and the Senate who were all kind of wary of Marius' popularity and ambition, even though he had retired as we said, and the string of consulships that he'd had for six years. They were reluctant to give him overall command of the war. But they ended up doing it. As you say, he retired, sort of step down early because of some sort of health problem. But Sulla basically took control of the army as a result of that."

None of our sources mention any wariness. Nor did the Senate have any need for reluctance: consuls were in command of the war.

There were two theaters of operations: Sulla was serving in the north under the command of Lucius Julius Caesar, while Marius was serving in the south under the command of Publius Rutilius Lupus. Marius received the proconsular imperium after Rutilius died in battle, but he laid it down after a few months due to health issues. Lucius Porcius Cato, a new consul, replaced Marius on the southern front. In 89 BC, Cato died in battle, and Sulla received the proconsular imperium on that front.

• 37:57 – Ray: "And he [Sulla] is a patrician. Even though he's not someone who's gonna be your best pal, he has the right blood and that's really all that matters to the optimates."

What mattered to the optimates was that you supported their views. The staunchest optimates were plebeians like Cato (both the older and the younger) and Cicero. Catiline was a patrician, and yet the optimates backed Cicero, who was a novus homo, just to prevent Catiline from reaching the consulship. Caesar was a patrician; did that help him with the optimates? Hell no.

• 39:13 – Ray on Marius and Sulla: "So suddenly there is tension between these two men who were at one point thick as thieves."

They weren't. And there's been tension between them since the Jugurthine War.

• 41:31 – Cam: "And he [Sulla] justified his actions on the grounds that the Senate had lost its way. It was corrupt, it wasn't making any sense, the rules didn't apply anymore because the Senate was ineffective and corrupt."

The Senate did not take the command from Sulla, and he wasn't blaming them. The bill to give the command to Marius was put forward by the tribune. That's why when Sulla won the Civil War, he crippled the tribunate and stripped it of all its legislative power.

• 42:26 – Ray: "So he [Sulla] sets Rome up and he takes off to go fight his war against Mithridates, thinking that he's taken care of the situation for now. And, of course, it turns out not be the case." 

It's highly unlikely that Sulla was unaware that he was leaving Rome unstable.

"Although the political situation at Rome was obviously still highly unsatisfactory, there was now nothing he could do about it, especially as he was urgently required elsewhere." – Arthur Keaveney

• 42:46 – Cam: "He [Marius] also apparently said that any slaves that would join and fight with him would be given their freedom. . . . And according to Plutarch, only three slaves accepted."
Ray: "Well, that's because it was so alien to them too. They could not, I mean, it was just ingrained in them, you don't stand up to your masters, you don't resist, certainly you don't fight and kill."

If it was so ingrained in them, why did the Republic have three major slave wars and numerous smaller conflicts? The reason only three slaves took up the chance is because the writing on the wall was pretty obvious: Sulla with six legions vs. Marius with zero legions.

"Not even the slaves were prepared to follow the increasingly uncertain leadership of Marius and Sulpicius, and to embrace a cause that appeared to stand no chance of success." – Federico Santangelo

• 49:25 – Ray: "Because of that prophecy that not only said all these amazing things would happen to Marius, which seem to come true. But he was worried about being outshone by his nephew, this Roman who's gonna come after him. For whatever reasons, that may have played a part, it may not, but Cinna and Marius nominate and make Caesar the Flamen Dialis. . . That basically would make sure, if he stays the Flamen Dialis, he would not have a military, a senatorial career. And that means he won't be able to outshine Marius in the Roman history books."

As mentioned above, that part of the prophecy is completely fictional.

Yes, Caesar was nominated for the post of Flamen Dialis. No, he was not made one. His inauguration never came about.

Yes, the flamen could not have a military career. No, he could have a senatorial career, but a very restricted one.

• 56:41 – Ray: "When Sulla comes back from the East in 83 BC, he lands in Brundisium, he's marching up north. And to make a long story short, Cinna tries to put an army against him, he is defeated and then he is killed eventually by his own troops."

Cinna was killed in 84 BC, way before Sulla had landed in Italy. The army didn't want to go to the Balkans to fight Sulla, so they mutinied and killed Cinna.

• 57:00 – Ray: "Sulla is going to be joined by some people that are going to factor very heavily into Caesar's life. There is Caecilius Metellus Pius, Marcus Licinius Crassus and, of course, Pompey Magnus. He gave himself the name Magnus."

Metellus Pius is not gonna factor very heavily in Caesar's life. Like, at all.

The cognomen Magnus was given to Pompey either by Sulla or by his own army.

• 58:04 – Ray on Sulla's proscriptions: "And they're trying to raise money to put back into Treasury of which Rome was depleted, they're trying to pay off these troops, he's [Sulla] trying to clean up everything."

This is a beyond generous assessment of Sulla's proscriptions. It was one of the darkest chapters of the Republic's history. The proscriptions were all about punishment and the personal enrichment of Sulla's associates.

"Sulla ordered that the proscriptions – lists of names of men who thereby lost all protection of law – be posted up in the Forum, and copies were subsequently sent to other parts of Italy. Those proscribed could be killed by anyone and a reward claimed on presentation of their severed heads to Sulla, who had them displayed on and around the Rostra. Usually the victim’s property was confiscated and auctioned off, much of it being purchased at a knock-down price by Sulla’s associates. The victims were principally either senators or equestrians. Several lists were posted and, though we have no precise figure, the total amounted to some hundreds. Most had opposed Sulla, but other names were added simply because of a man’s wealth. One equestrian who had taken little interest in public life is supposed to have seen his name on one of the lists and declared that his Alban estate wanted to see him dead. He was soon killed. Many private hatreds were exercised, and there were more than a few cases of names being added to the lists after the man had been killed in order to legitimise murder. . . . The proscriptions formally ended on 1 June 81 BC, but their horror lived on and scarred the Romans' collective consciousness for the rest of the century." – Adrian Goldsworthy

• 58:29 – Ray: "He [Sulla] hates Marius and he finds Caesar, a 16 or 18 years old kid. And he's the Flamen Dialis. Marius is the one who appointed him. And he's like saying to Caesar, 'Ok, you're not longer flaminate. You have to give up this position' and Caesar says— 'And you have to divorce your wife.' You know, Cinna's daughter. And Caesar says, 'No.' And so Sulla, who doesn't have time to mess around, he takes the dowry away, so suddenly Caesar's poor. And he says, 'Give up your wife and give up being the Flamen Dialis.' And he says, 'No.' So he takes the flaminate away from him. So Sulla's getting closer and closer and closer to quite literally just saying, 'Oh, just kill the young person.' But he hasn't come to that yet. But you don't say no to Sulla too many times before you end up with your head cut off and on the spike. People in Caesar's family are trying to talk to Sulla on his behalf, but Sulla's just dealing with all this stuff, he hasn't got time for this young [can't make out the word] who's giving him trouble. And Caesar just knows at any day now he's gonna end up being executed, but he still, he says no over and over again. We don't know really why. Was he just trying to push Sulla, was he brave, was he stupid, did he believe in his luck? I don't know. But he's the one person who tells Sulla no over and over again."

Ray's narration is messy and all over the place, and at one point it sounds as if the flaminate was the point of contention and not Cornelia. lol

a) Caesar was 18 years old.

b) He wasn't the Flamen Dialis. He was only nominated for the post, but he was never inaugurated. Marius did not have that power.

c) Sulla annulled all of Cinna's and Marius' orders anyway.

d) Sulla wasn't asking him to give up the flaminate. He ordered him to divorce Cornelia. Caesar's marriage connection to Cinna was the issue, not the flaminate. His refusal to divorce Cornelia is what got him into trouble with Sulla.

e) Nobody from Caesar's family tried to talk to Sulla on his behalf because he had no close living male relatives left to stand up for him.

Two men would eventually appeal to Sulla to pardon Caesar, but only after he had to go on the run. One of them was a relative of Caesar's mother, Aurelia. Another man was very, very distantly related to her as well. So basically, his mother saved him, but it took time to find and convince people to plead with Sulla.

Episode 3