"Life of Caesar" Podcast: Episode 3
Episode 3:
• 01:58 – Cam: "So last episode we finished with Sulla, dictator of Rome, telling the young, golden-haired, snappy-dressing . . . dandy, 18 year old Julius Caesar that he had to divorce his wife. Why? We don't really know."
a) The sources don't mention Caesar's hair color, but it's more likely that he had dark hair. Blond hair would've been very unusual for a Roman of his day. We know that he had "keen black eyes," and dark eyes are more common in dark-haired people.
Golden-haired and blue-eyed Caesar comes from Colleen McCullough.
b) Sulla ordered him to divorce Cornelia because she was Cinna's daughter. For example, Marcus Pupius Piso was married to Cinna's widow, but divorced her on Sulla's orders.
• 02:35 – Cam: "And Julius Caesar turning around to the brutal dictator Sulla and basically flipping him the bird. Again, we don't know why. Was it true love? Was it just obstinacy? What do you think? . . . Why would he do that? You're not a boss of me?"
Ray: "Basically. He was 18 or 19 year old kid. He had lived a very sheltered life. He's got all the wax masks in his house, all the people that have come before him. He truly believes he's better than most, because most Roman aristocrats did. And he just wasn't gonna do anything that he didn't wanna do. He hadn't really been tested by life. And so he was just giving the dictator piece of his mind. And obviously realized soon afterwards that 'oh crap, I could be dead very soon, with my head on a pike.' But I just think it was hubris, he was young and arrogant. It was hubris."
"Realized afterwards"? Really? Let's see... Sulla storms the city for the second time, huge battle outside the Colline Gate, the proscriptions are raging, prominent men are being killed all over the place, heads decorating the Rostra (including of Marius' son and nephew), fugitives, bounty-hunters, but it takes him time to realize he's in deep shit? Come on! Surely Caesar was smarter than that and knew from the start what he was getting into.
Why are people so eager to believe that he was in love with Cleopatra or Servilia, but won't even entertain the idea that he loved Cornelia? But even taking love out of the equation, a sense of decency must have played a bigger part than hubris. Cornelia is young, she has no money, her father's dead, her stepfather divorced her mother, her brother is proscribed, and her brother-in-law is executed... The only support she has is Caesar and his family.
There is also a question of their daughter. If she was already born, that's even more reason why Caesar would refuse to divorce Cornelia. I know most people choose 76 as the year of Julia's birth, but I've read a good argument for 82, so I'm open to both.
• 09:34 – Ray: "So the first thing Caesar's gonna do is to try and make a name for himself. He's gonna get some military experience under his belt. Because he's been in Rome for all this time, he's literally done nothing."
It's perfectly normal that he's done nothing yet. A Roman aristocrat started his military training after the age of 17. In the earlier days, ten-year military service was mandatory. By Caesar's time, the rules weren't so rigid, but a young man was still expected to join the military and serve for a while. Caesar was following a standard path.
• 14:50 – Cam: "He wins Rome's highest award for gallantry, the civic crown. . . . You know, famously, you'll see pictures or paintings or even busts of Caesar with the oak leaves around his head. This is the civic crown."
Those are artistic re-imaginings of Caesar and I think most of them depict him with a laurel wreath. Unfortunately, we don't have ancient images of Caesar wearing the civic crown.
• 16:46 – Ray: "He stays in Bithynia longer than he needs to. Even though the fleet has sailed and it's gone, it's on its way, he's still in Bithynia. And rumors start circulating about why is this very young, attractive person hanging out with this king who is known to like young boys."
a) The sources do not say that the fleet left before him.
b) It's probably rude to say, but I'm pretty sure that Ray had not studied King Nicomedes. I haven't either! But in all the studies about Caesar and this episode in his life, I have never seen anyone mention Nicomedes' sexual preferences. Such information would've been relevant, so I'm gonna assume that the sources on Nicomedes don't mention his sexual life. So how does Ray know that Nicomedes was "known to like young boys"?
c) The first recorded allegations appeared in the trial of Cornelius Dolabella, whom Caesar prosecuted in the extortion court. In return, Dolabella launched his own attack on Caesar, who at this time had an impeccable reputation.
• 17:35 – Ray: "When these rumors start flying around it almost cancels out the civic crown that he won."
This is way too dramatic. The prestige of corona civica was simply too great, and Caesar's career proceeded smoothly. This is what Plutarch says of him during this period:
• 24:11 – Cam: "[Caesar] was like a father to her [Servilia's] son Marcus Lucius Brutus."
Marcus Junius Brutus. And they weren't that close.
• 32:14 – Cam: "What's the "Dolabella"? It's not the cognomen, it's the..."
Ray: "Is it the suffe–, I can't remember."
It is cognomen.
***
Now to the pirates... Every speech and piece of dialogue of Caesar, Iuncus, and the pirates are made up by the hosts. They exaggerated an already colorful story to high heavens, so I'll just stick to the smaller details.
• 34:53 – Cam: "He has some friends with him at the time, when they capture him. They release the friends to go back to Rome and they put a price on Caesar’s head."
His companions went to various cities around Asia. Plutarch says that the money came from Miletus. During his dictatorship, Caesar would reward the Milesians who helped him.
• 38:50 – Ray: "[Caesar] leads them exactly back to these pirates' hiding place. Now, the Romans haven't been able to find these different various pirate hiding places for years, but somehow he was able to remember and go back to where they were at."
None of our sources say that it was difficult to find them.
The well-hidden place and the tricky way he memorized the route come from Colleen McCullough's "Fortune's Favorites."
• 39:59 – Ray: "He takes every single, e v e r y single pirate, all their kids, all their dogs, whatever, and all their booty."
Plutarch says that he "got most of them." Velleius Paterculus says: "He directed his course to the rendezvous of the pirates, put to flight part of their fleet, sank part, and captured several ships and many men." No one mentions any kids or dogs.
• 40:36 – Cam: "He takes them to Pergamum and says to the propraetor there, Marcus Iuncus, 'Punish these guys.'"
Marcus Iuncus was a proconsul, and he was in Bithynia at the time. Caesar left the prisoners at Pergamum and then sailed to Iuncus.
• 45:34 – Ray: "And they were literally strung up. And I apologize, I do not know the road that they were strung up upon, but they were. They were strung up where people could see them. But they were all killed and there were bodies all other the place. . . . Hundreds and hundreds of pirates."
The sources don't mention the number of prisoners. And not a single source says that they were crucified on a road where people could see them. All we know is that they were crucified, but to spare them a lingering and painful death, Caesar ordered their throats cut first.
• 47:04 – Ray: "After his court case that we mentioned, there was another court case. And that same year, in 76 BCE, his daughter, his only legitimate daughter, Julia is born. So she's born in 76 BCE."
a) Some details of that other case:
b) We don't know the year of Julia's birth. 76 BC is just the most common estimation based on the average age Roman girls were married off.
Episode 4
Episode 3: • 01:58 – Cam: "So last episode we finished with Sulla, dictator of Rome, telling the young, golden-haired, snappy-dressing . . . dandy, 18 year old Julius Caesar that he had to divorce his wife. Why? We don't really know."
a) The sources don't mention Caesar's hair color, but it's more likely that he had dark hair. Blond hair would've been very unusual for a Roman of his day. We know that he had "keen black eyes," and dark eyes are more common in dark-haired people.
Golden-haired and blue-eyed Caesar comes from Colleen McCullough.
b) Sulla ordered him to divorce Cornelia because she was Cinna's daughter. For example, Marcus Pupius Piso was married to Cinna's widow, but divorced her on Sulla's orders.
• 02:35 – Cam: "And Julius Caesar turning around to the brutal dictator Sulla and basically flipping him the bird. Again, we don't know why. Was it true love? Was it just obstinacy? What do you think? . . . Why would he do that? You're not a boss of me?"
Ray: "Basically. He was 18 or 19 year old kid. He had lived a very sheltered life. He's got all the wax masks in his house, all the people that have come before him. He truly believes he's better than most, because most Roman aristocrats did. And he just wasn't gonna do anything that he didn't wanna do. He hadn't really been tested by life. And so he was just giving the dictator piece of his mind. And obviously realized soon afterwards that 'oh crap, I could be dead very soon, with my head on a pike.' But I just think it was hubris, he was young and arrogant. It was hubris."
"Realized afterwards"? Really? Let's see... Sulla storms the city for the second time, huge battle outside the Colline Gate, the proscriptions are raging, prominent men are being killed all over the place, heads decorating the Rostra (including of Marius' son and nephew), fugitives, bounty-hunters, but it takes him time to realize he's in deep shit? Come on! Surely Caesar was smarter than that and knew from the start what he was getting into.
Why are people so eager to believe that he was in love with Cleopatra or Servilia, but won't even entertain the idea that he loved Cornelia? But even taking love out of the equation, a sense of decency must have played a bigger part than hubris. Cornelia is young, she has no money, her father's dead, her stepfather divorced her mother, her brother is proscribed, and her brother-in-law is executed... The only support she has is Caesar and his family.
There is also a question of their daughter. If she was already born, that's even more reason why Caesar would refuse to divorce Cornelia. I know most people choose 76 as the year of Julia's birth, but I've read a good argument for 82, so I'm open to both.
• 09:34 – Ray: "So the first thing Caesar's gonna do is to try and make a name for himself. He's gonna get some military experience under his belt. Because he's been in Rome for all this time, he's literally done nothing."
It's perfectly normal that he's done nothing yet. A Roman aristocrat started his military training after the age of 17. In the earlier days, ten-year military service was mandatory. By Caesar's time, the rules weren't so rigid, but a young man was still expected to join the military and serve for a while. Caesar was following a standard path.
• 14:50 – Cam: "He wins Rome's highest award for gallantry, the civic crown. . . . You know, famously, you'll see pictures or paintings or even busts of Caesar with the oak leaves around his head. This is the civic crown."
Those are artistic re-imaginings of Caesar and I think most of them depict him with a laurel wreath. Unfortunately, we don't have ancient images of Caesar wearing the civic crown.
• 16:46 – Ray: "He stays in Bithynia longer than he needs to. Even though the fleet has sailed and it's gone, it's on its way, he's still in Bithynia. And rumors start circulating about why is this very young, attractive person hanging out with this king who is known to like young boys."
a) The sources do not say that the fleet left before him.
b) It's probably rude to say, but I'm pretty sure that Ray had not studied King Nicomedes. I haven't either! But in all the studies about Caesar and this episode in his life, I have never seen anyone mention Nicomedes' sexual preferences. Such information would've been relevant, so I'm gonna assume that the sources on Nicomedes don't mention his sexual life. So how does Ray know that Nicomedes was "known to like young boys"?
c) The first recorded allegations appeared in the trial of Cornelius Dolabella, whom Caesar prosecuted in the extortion court. In return, Dolabella launched his own attack on Caesar, who at this time had an impeccable reputation.
"An attack on his handsome young opponent's pudicitia [chastity] was almost expected, as a way of diminishing Caesar and buttressing the speaker's own authority. . . . It is entirely typical, as seen, of what one would have heard in the courts of Rome. What is certainly demonstrable is that Dolabella's version of the allegation is the earliest Suetonius could find, and Dolabella's speech – which was published – had to have been what made it widely familiar in Rome." – Josiah Osgood
• 17:35 – Ray: "When these rumors start flying around it almost cancels out the civic crown that he won."
This is way too dramatic. The prestige of corona civica was simply too great, and Caesar's career proceeded smoothly. This is what Plutarch says of him during this period:
"In Rome Caesar's support grew. That was partly due to his rhetorical gifts and the goodwill he won by his advocacy; but the ordinary people were very enthusiastic too, won over by the charm with which he greeted people and talked to them, for his talent for winning popularity belied his years."
• 24:11 – Cam: "[Caesar] was like a father to her [Servilia's] son Marcus Lucius Brutus."
Marcus Junius Brutus. And they weren't that close.
• 32:14 – Cam: "What's the "Dolabella"? It's not the cognomen, it's the..."
Ray: "Is it the suffe–, I can't remember."
It is cognomen.
***
Now to the pirates... Every speech and piece of dialogue of Caesar, Iuncus, and the pirates are made up by the hosts. They exaggerated an already colorful story to high heavens, so I'll just stick to the smaller details.
• 34:53 – Cam: "He has some friends with him at the time, when they capture him. They release the friends to go back to Rome and they put a price on Caesar’s head."
His companions went to various cities around Asia. Plutarch says that the money came from Miletus. During his dictatorship, Caesar would reward the Milesians who helped him.
• 38:50 – Ray: "[Caesar] leads them exactly back to these pirates' hiding place. Now, the Romans haven't been able to find these different various pirate hiding places for years, but somehow he was able to remember and go back to where they were at."
None of our sources say that it was difficult to find them.
The well-hidden place and the tricky way he memorized the route come from Colleen McCullough's "Fortune's Favorites."
• 39:59 – Ray: "He takes every single, e v e r y single pirate, all their kids, all their dogs, whatever, and all their booty."
Plutarch says that he "got most of them." Velleius Paterculus says: "He directed his course to the rendezvous of the pirates, put to flight part of their fleet, sank part, and captured several ships and many men." No one mentions any kids or dogs.
• 40:36 – Cam: "He takes them to Pergamum and says to the propraetor there, Marcus Iuncus, 'Punish these guys.'"
Marcus Iuncus was a proconsul, and he was in Bithynia at the time. Caesar left the prisoners at Pergamum and then sailed to Iuncus.
• 45:34 – Ray: "And they were literally strung up. And I apologize, I do not know the road that they were strung up upon, but they were. They were strung up where people could see them. But they were all killed and there were bodies all other the place. . . . Hundreds and hundreds of pirates."
The sources don't mention the number of prisoners. And not a single source says that they were crucified on a road where people could see them. All we know is that they were crucified, but to spare them a lingering and painful death, Caesar ordered their throats cut first.
"Crucifixion was strictly a punishment for criminals and slaves, being designed as much for torture and terror as killing. . . . The prisoner normally suffered in agony for days until finally succumbing to exhaustion and shock. Suetonius writes without irony when he says that Caesar mercifully cut the throats of the pirates before hanging each one on a cross." – Philip Freeman
• 47:04 – Ray: "After his court case that we mentioned, there was another court case. And that same year, in 76 BCE, his daughter, his only legitimate daughter, Julia is born. So she's born in 76 BCE."
a) Some details of that other case:
"This was the trial of Caius Antonius in 76 BC for his rapacity while serving in the war against Mithridates. The court was presided over by the praetor Marcus Licinius Lucullus, the brother of Lucius who had been the only senator to accompany Sulla on his march on Rome in 88 BC. Caesar made a very good case against a man whose guilt seems to have been patent, but Antonius appealed to the tribunes of the plebs, prompting one or more of these to veto the proceedings. As a result the trial broke up without delivering its verdict and Antonius escaped, although his subsequent career proved extremely chequered." – Adrian Goldsworthy
b) We don't know the year of Julia's birth. 76 BC is just the most common estimation based on the average age Roman girls were married off.
Episode 4
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