"Life of Caesar" Podcast: Episode 4
In this episode, Cam and Ray cover the second half of 70s BC. Unfortunately, this period of Caesar's life is the least documented, so we don't know a whole lot. My review will mostly consist of "we don't know" nit-picking. Apologies!
Episode 4:
In Cam and Ray's account, the number of crucified pirates went from hundreds (last episode) to thousands at the start of this episode. And people say the ancients loved to exaggerate the numbers!
• 06:04 – Cam: "So Caesar goes and does that [study with Apollonius]. And then we don't really know much about what happens in that time of his life. He never really talked about it. Never really wrote about it."
Caesar wrote two books on Latin grammar. For all we know, he might have mentioned Apollonius in there. But the books haven't survived, so we don't know.
• 06:32 – Ray: "Some time in 74 BC Mithridates, even though he's an old man now, is once again ready to take on the Roman Republic. So he again invades the Asia province. And he sends some troops . . . he sends them to Asia Minor. . . . And Caesar hears about this, puts down his stylus. . . And he literally goes to Asia, finds where some of the troops were at. And he literally raises the army from the local community. . . . He leads them and they're able to beat back the Pontic troops in that particular area, they push them out. Caesar says, 'Ok, did my part.' And he goes back to Rhodes and again picks up his studies."
The chronology is not so clear-cut. Caesar's operation against the Pontic raid could have happened in 74 or 73 BC. We don't know if he went back to Rhodes afterwards or if he sailed somewhere else. All we know is that he returned to Rome in 73 BC.
• 11:33 – Ray: "So he goes back to the law courts and starts prosecuting more well-known men. He's gonna lose most of these, but he's gonna get his name out there."
This is completely false. In this period, he delivered a speech against Marcus Iuncus on behalf of the Bithynians, but we don't even know if this was a court case. Caesar did not prosecute anyone else!
• 12:00 – Cam: "We know at some date around this period he represented Nicomedes' daughter Nysa."
Some scholars date the Nysa case to 70s, but the more popular suggestion is 60 BC.
• 12:36 – Ray on Nicomedes: "But again in some ways there is no bad press, his name was getting out there and he was recognized and that's the key to winning this next election."
In the last episode, Ray said that this rumor "almost cancels out the civic crown that he won," but now it's the key to winning the elections?
• 15:35 – Ray: "And so now he's an officer. So he's kind of made this big leap to going from not too much military experience to being an officer. So he's moving up very quickly, very fast and again he's still a young man, he's not even 30 years old yet."
This manages to both understate and overstate Caesar's position.
He had 4-5 years of military service, two independent operations (against the pirates and the Pontic raiders), and has won the civic crown. How is this "not too much military experience"?
With these displays of personal bravery and competence, his election to the military tribunate is not a big leap but a natural step. It can hardly be said that he was "moving up very quickly, very fast" as military tribunes were men of his age or younger. We don't even know where he served or what he did as a military tribune, so it's not like he was that important.
What he is at this stage is a very promising and hella charming young man.
• 25:45 – Cam: "He [Crassus] treated his legions with a fair amount of discipline and brutality and reviving the old punishment of decimation."
They describe what decimation is and make it sound as if Crassus decimated an entire army, and are horrified by it.
Crassus didn't decimate an entire army. He decimated one cohort, the one that was first to flee in the previous battle. One legion consisted of ten cohorts. So, 50 men were executed.
• 30:27 – Cam: "He [Crassus] had some setbacks earlier on, but eventually managed to engage Spartacus, defeated him, killed about 6,000 of the rebels. . . . There were a bunch of slaves that were captured, right about 6,000."
In one of the earlier battles, Crassus' army killed 6,000 men in the morning and then 6,000 more in the evening. The sources do not report the number of killed in the final battle, but we know that 6,000 were captured and then crucified along the Appian Way. The hosts mixed these two stories together.
• 33:02 – Ray: "So he [Pompey] comes back, literally does nothing, except against strugglers, but he declares that he finished it. And, of course, Crassus, who already hates Pompey, now truly does."
Of course, it's possible that Crassus already disliked Pompey, 'cause Pompey was pompous. But there are no records of any particular hate until now.
• 33:27 – Cam: "We assume that Crassus and Caesar probably got to spend some time together during this period. Caesar being a military tribune, Crassus being in command of the army. . . . Though we don't know a lot about what Caesar was doing in this time, historians assume that his friendship with Crassus was probably cemented during this period."
We have no idea if Caesar took any part in the Spartacus War. It's one of the most famous wars in history and the temptation to include young Julius Caesar in the story is very strong. But we simply have no freaking idea where he was during this period.
Caesar and Crassus' close association didn't start until the mid-60s. Even if Caesar did serve in this war, it doesn't seem like they became close friends right away.
• 35:54 – Ray: "At some point Caesar is able to get Crassus and Pompey to the peace table. They work out an agreement, they don't end up fighting. Suddenly you have this powerful group of three men and they are gonna help steer the course of Rome in a very intense way."
This is Colleen McCullough again. None of our sources suggest any involvement on his part. Crassus and Pompey had joined forces to campaign for the consulship and restore the tribunate, but they quickly fell out. If anything, this is a clear sign that Caesar was not involved. Otherwise, he would've calmed their hostility, which he is able to do during the First Triumvirate.
Episode 5
In this episode, Cam and Ray cover the second half of 70s BC. Unfortunately, this period of Caesar's life is the least documented, so we don't know a whole lot. My review will mostly consist of "we don't know" nit-picking. Apologies!Episode 4:
In Cam and Ray's account, the number of crucified pirates went from hundreds (last episode) to thousands at the start of this episode. And people say the ancients loved to exaggerate the numbers!
• 06:04 – Cam: "So Caesar goes and does that [study with Apollonius]. And then we don't really know much about what happens in that time of his life. He never really talked about it. Never really wrote about it."
Caesar wrote two books on Latin grammar. For all we know, he might have mentioned Apollonius in there. But the books haven't survived, so we don't know.
• 06:32 – Ray: "Some time in 74 BC Mithridates, even though he's an old man now, is once again ready to take on the Roman Republic. So he again invades the Asia province. And he sends some troops . . . he sends them to Asia Minor. . . . And Caesar hears about this, puts down his stylus. . . And he literally goes to Asia, finds where some of the troops were at. And he literally raises the army from the local community. . . . He leads them and they're able to beat back the Pontic troops in that particular area, they push them out. Caesar says, 'Ok, did my part.' And he goes back to Rhodes and again picks up his studies."
The chronology is not so clear-cut. Caesar's operation against the Pontic raid could have happened in 74 or 73 BC. We don't know if he went back to Rhodes afterwards or if he sailed somewhere else. All we know is that he returned to Rome in 73 BC.
• 11:33 – Ray: "So he goes back to the law courts and starts prosecuting more well-known men. He's gonna lose most of these, but he's gonna get his name out there."
This is completely false. In this period, he delivered a speech against Marcus Iuncus on behalf of the Bithynians, but we don't even know if this was a court case. Caesar did not prosecute anyone else!
• 12:00 – Cam: "We know at some date around this period he represented Nicomedes' daughter Nysa."
Some scholars date the Nysa case to 70s, but the more popular suggestion is 60 BC.
"[Strasburger] argues that the incident. . , in which Caesar intervened in the Senate on behalf of Nysa, the daughter of Nicomedes IV . . . should be dated as early as the seventies. But Caesar was not yet a senator at that time, and so we may rather agree with Munzer that Caesar as consul designate in 60 may have spoken in the debate on the new organization of the provinces of Asia Minor." – Matthias Gelzer
• 12:36 – Ray on Nicomedes: "But again in some ways there is no bad press, his name was getting out there and he was recognized and that's the key to winning this next election."
In the last episode, Ray said that this rumor "almost cancels out the civic crown that he won," but now it's the key to winning the elections?
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• 15:35 – Ray: "And so now he's an officer. So he's kind of made this big leap to going from not too much military experience to being an officer. So he's moving up very quickly, very fast and again he's still a young man, he's not even 30 years old yet."
This manages to both understate and overstate Caesar's position.
He had 4-5 years of military service, two independent operations (against the pirates and the Pontic raiders), and has won the civic crown. How is this "not too much military experience"?
With these displays of personal bravery and competence, his election to the military tribunate is not a big leap but a natural step. It can hardly be said that he was "moving up very quickly, very fast" as military tribunes were men of his age or younger. We don't even know where he served or what he did as a military tribune, so it's not like he was that important.
What he is at this stage is a very promising and hella charming young man.
• 25:45 – Cam: "He [Crassus] treated his legions with a fair amount of discipline and brutality and reviving the old punishment of decimation."
They describe what decimation is and make it sound as if Crassus decimated an entire army, and are horrified by it.
Crassus didn't decimate an entire army. He decimated one cohort, the one that was first to flee in the previous battle. One legion consisted of ten cohorts. So, 50 men were executed.
• 30:27 – Cam: "He [Crassus] had some setbacks earlier on, but eventually managed to engage Spartacus, defeated him, killed about 6,000 of the rebels. . . . There were a bunch of slaves that were captured, right about 6,000."
In one of the earlier battles, Crassus' army killed 6,000 men in the morning and then 6,000 more in the evening. The sources do not report the number of killed in the final battle, but we know that 6,000 were captured and then crucified along the Appian Way. The hosts mixed these two stories together.
• 33:02 – Ray: "So he [Pompey] comes back, literally does nothing, except against strugglers, but he declares that he finished it. And, of course, Crassus, who already hates Pompey, now truly does."
Of course, it's possible that Crassus already disliked Pompey, 'cause Pompey was pompous. But there are no records of any particular hate until now.
• 33:27 – Cam: "We assume that Crassus and Caesar probably got to spend some time together during this period. Caesar being a military tribune, Crassus being in command of the army. . . . Though we don't know a lot about what Caesar was doing in this time, historians assume that his friendship with Crassus was probably cemented during this period."
We have no idea if Caesar took any part in the Spartacus War. It's one of the most famous wars in history and the temptation to include young Julius Caesar in the story is very strong. But we simply have no freaking idea where he was during this period.
Caesar and Crassus' close association didn't start until the mid-60s. Even if Caesar did serve in this war, it doesn't seem like they became close friends right away.
• 35:54 – Ray: "At some point Caesar is able to get Crassus and Pompey to the peace table. They work out an agreement, they don't end up fighting. Suddenly you have this powerful group of three men and they are gonna help steer the course of Rome in a very intense way."
This is Colleen McCullough again. None of our sources suggest any involvement on his part. Crassus and Pompey had joined forces to campaign for the consulship and restore the tribunate, but they quickly fell out. If anything, this is a clear sign that Caesar was not involved. Otherwise, he would've calmed their hostility, which he is able to do during the First Triumvirate.
Episode 5
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